Best of List.

Remember when I had first posted about Information from the Numbers? I had put up a list which was technically Illegal (three Venerable Dreadnoughts) and so I took it down.

Well I really, really liked that list as it had just about everything I could want (except for strong Infantry based Firepower). So I went back to the drawing board and tried a few adjustments. I tried putting in Terminators instead of Dreadnoughts, but I had less redundancy, less scoring, no 4+2, and it didn’t get as good of numbers.

But then I had a thought, what about Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods? So I tried it out to see if it would fit and after some fiddling this is what I came up with:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept), -140

Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor; Drop Pod; -160

Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor; Drop Pod; -160

Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor; Drop Pod; -160

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Meltagun; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke; -158

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Meltagun; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke; -158

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Meltagun; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke; -158

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; Rhino: Smoke; -154

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascanonn, Plasma Gun; Rhino: Smoke, Searchlight; -155

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter; -70

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter; -70

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter; -70

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke, Searchlight; -129

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke, Searchlight; -129

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke, Searchlight; -129

EDIT: I decided that Meltaguns would be beneficial in the Multi-Melta Squads so that they can act as Suicide Melta (yet another list aspect I have gotten in), so I dropped a couple of Searchlights and changed two Lascannons to Missile Launchers. However I was too lazy to edit the post any further, so just keep these changes in mind as you read. I have also changed the Missile Launchers to Lascannons.

So we’ve got scoring, the 4+2 (actually, 3+2), the 1+1, MSU (both from general lack of expensive units as well as a nearly maxed FOC), Disruption, saturation, mobility, flexibility, enough reliable weapons for me to fear neither Rhino nor Land Raider, and Preferred Enemy.

Scoring means that we won’t suffer in Objective-Based Games. 3+2 means a good balance of what goes forward and what sits back in our troops. MSU means plenty of sacrificial units (all of them) as well as 19-22 Individual threats to my opponent (depending on if you count the Drop Pods which are generally more of a passive threat) and lots of special/heavy weapons. Disruption means that my opponent has something more to worry about than just what is across the table from him. Saturation means a very low chance that my opponent will be able to neutralize a significant portion of my army unless he outplays me (something which cannot be countered in a list). Mobility means that I have means of either chasing my opponent down or staying away from them (whichever is needed). Flexibility means few bad matchups and the ability to counter my opponent’s plans. Reliable weapons further reduce the chance of bad matchups. Preferred Enemy is there to give me some greater threat in Close Combat (especially for my Dreadnoughts) though I could exchange it for Abhor and the Psychic Defense without much loss (and hey, some Neophytes or make on of my Dreadnoughts Venerable + Tank Hunting).

One apparent flaw that struck me but quickly died is having Drop Pods in a mech list. Now, the question is obvious: “Why not forgo the Drop Pods in favor of a long-range setup and Rhinos for the Las/Plas Squads? You get more vehicle saturation from the outset (beginning at 14 fronts at AV 10-13) as well as the fire from the Dreadnoughts every turn without the risk of coming down late.” The thing about that is I would lose out on Disruption which, thanks to the Drop Pods and MM/HF Dreadnoughts, I have almost in excess (but not so much as to endanger my list).

Now, should the Drop Pods come down early (such as all of them by turn 3) then I get their firepower early to kill my opponent and block movement lanes/LoS. Should I get them all late (such as not until at least turn 4) then they make excellent units for clearing objectives or at least contesting them. Should I get them gradually as the game goes along then I get some of the benefit of early killing power, plus some of the advantages of getting them late game. Technically, the most likely outcome is that they all land in the first couple of turns which, while able to kill key units that my opponent has, is the least effective. I can already kill things pretty well (relatively speaking, of course) and my opponent no longer has to worry about things coming in to ruin any plans he has aside from what has already come down; so basically if they arrive early they become a focus for buying myself time early game and killing things as opposed to arriving later and having more of a psychological impact along with objective contesting/finishing off hiding, weakened units that are trying to deny me Kill Points. In short: no, I do not see how it is disadvantageous to have these units come in Drop Pods.

I don’t have absolute knowledge of how this list will perform on the table, but I can predict (from Nikephoros’s Metric System) that I can shoot Infantry pretty well and I can deal with Heavy Armor. I could use more ability to handle light Vehicles and not always being in Melta Range will hurt but I still have enough. Aside from that? I have a general idea of how it is supposed to go but that change depending on my opponent and his list. However, here’s what I suspect to happen 9/10 times. At first I drive forward and Pop Smoke with my MM Bunkers, spreading them out some so that they threaten a large portion of the board while still being able to cross fire (multiples shooting at one thing if needed). The Las/Plas Squads sit, disembarked, in a piece of terrain, preferably on an objective and with good firing lanes; the Predators similarly positioned as to see a good chunk of the board if possible. Land Speeders can move around but try to retain cover either from Rhinos or Terrain and act as Suppression fire more than anything. Dreadnoughts eventually come down as described above and either block movement/firing lanes, assassinate key vehicles/infantry groups, or land to support wherever they are needed (unless they come late, when they act as above). At the end of the game, if all goes well, I should be holding one-to-two objectives to my opponent’s zero-to-one, sometimes better, sometimes worse.

I hope that this has been informative/interesting to someone, particularly since if I were not running a Drop Pod list then this is more than likely what I would go for instead. For Dorn and the Emperor.

List Building, Part 1.

Alright, this is a while in coming, but here it is: an attempt at a Black Templar Close Combat list with good numbers.

We are actually going to try something new; I am going to walk through the steps as I make the list (which actually isn’t made by the time I’m writing this intro).

First off, rather than beginning with the two Troops and the Emperor’s Champion I like to start with standard things we need and then use what's left over on other things; so first thing we need is a basis of fire-power. Three Typhoons and three Auto/Las Predators are a fine start and there aren’t really better options from those slots (there are good, but not better). So we have a fire-base, as long as we improve upon this in later selections we should be fine.

While it may be tempting to grab some Assault Terminators, we shouldn’t. High cost, require a transport, and don’t really add to our fire-support. No, but we can take some Dreadnoughts. Three basic ones (not even Heavy Flamers) with nothing but Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers, and make one Venerable. I am actually torn between getting Tank Hunters (better shooting) and Furious Charge (better Initiative), however I can’t count on assaulting and I don’t really need that extra point. So Tank Hunters it is.

Now we need Independent Character support for our Crusader Squads (who I intend to do the greatest pull of combat). The Emperor’s Champion with Accept Any Challenge (of course), but do we take Castellans or Marshals? I’m going to go with Castellans armed with Frags, Power Weapons, and Storm Shields for now. They are less vulnerable to Instant Death and cheaper, both of which are is important since we’re taking two. If we have the points we can upgrade, but I want to be sure to have a strong Crusader base.

And finally, we get to the troops. We’ve got three options, take massive units (in Land Raider Crusaders), take regular units (in Rhinos), or take small units (in Razorbacks). Just for fun, let’s see how massive units would work out. We have…just let me do some calculations…705 points (assuming Smoke Launchers on the Predators). Okay, a 10/4 Crusader Squad with a Powerfist, Meltagun, and Frags in a Land Raider Crusader with Smoke Launchers costs…507 points. So we can get one of those and another squad to sit on our home objective with a Lascannon and Razorback; or not. How about regular sized squads? Standard setup (with room for the Castellans) costs 224 points so we can get three of them and have 33 points left over.

33 points? Upgrade to Marshals and slap some Searchlights on those Dreadnoughts! What about another 20 points to make those Power Weapons into Lightning Claws? Well, knock off those Searchlights again and drop a single Initiate. Viola, 20 points!

-Disclaimer-After adding up the list, I found that I was 30 points short. So replace the missing Initiate and…give the Marshals each Meltabombs, and put the Searchlights back on the Dreadnoughts. -/Disclaimer-

Now our list looks like this:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept) -140

Marshal: Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Frags, Meltabombs -116

Marshal: Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Frags, Meltabombs -116

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Storm Bolter, Venerable, Tank Hunter, Extra Armor, Smoke, Searchlight -134

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Storm Bolter, Extra Armor, Smoke, Searchlight -114

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Storm Bolter, Extra Armor, Smoke, Searchlight -114

Crusader Squad (7/2) BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke -224

Crusader Squad (7/2) BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke -224

Crusader Squad (7/2) BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; Rhino: Extra Armor, Smoke -224

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter -70

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter -70

Land Speeder: TML, Heavy Bolter -70

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke -128

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke -128

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Smoke -128

Total:-2,000

There we go! Now let’s look at how it measures up on the metric system:

DMS: 17.84

DMCC: 25.58

DRPG: 48.06

DLRPG: 12.11

So what does this tell us? It tells us that we can’t rely on shooting to kill infantry, our Close Combat is limited and insufficient, we will have a good deal of trouble killing light vehicles unless we can count on melee, and we can barely handle heavy mech. So at best, we have an aggressive list which uses a combination of shooting and close combat to deal with the enemy, and at worst we have a bad list. You decide.

I know, I know. I haven't tried Terminators. Well I will some other time, but I was trying to do it without Terminators for some reason. Personally, I don't think it will be great, but we'll see. Though I'm still undecided for what to do next.

Updates

Alright, there really isn't a common focus in this aside from what the title mentions as I have a lot to cover lightly none of which is directly connected.

First thing is that I've started school, it isn't sucking up all of my time but the first few weekdays have been busy what with school blocking up about 14 hours that I used to have free. I've got a bunch of projects that I have to finish, such as painting a few minis, homework, writing up a half dozen posts/lists that I've gotten ideas for, etc. So first thing is first.

I have had several list ideas, including an attempt at Tank Busting the Tyranid way and foot-based list, so I will work on those some and eventually get them up on here.

I have decided to start a Tyranid Army, which will likely get its own blog so as to a) not clutter up this one and b) keep the focus and (hopefully) do a better job at attracting followers with two specialized blogs rather than one which has a split focus. But fret not, I will continue with my Black Templars, just with a slowed rate of purchase.

I have decided to discontinue my "Information from the Numbers" series, unless I get specific requests to do another post in it. The reasons for this are partially because I did not take notes of my observations and they have become somewhat lost in my general knowledge but also because I have realized that there really isn't anything truly worthy in there. Taking the most efficient units doesn't always give you the best score (though I will complete a version of the list that I thought did, never fear) as taking the second best units fills out your points more and gives you a better average per point. So there will be no part 2, instead I have prepared what will probably start a new series that will come off and on titled "List Building" (name still in development).

That's about all I have, I hope you have a good start to the school year (or not if you aren't going to school anymore...). Until tomorrow!

Working on a list and Multi-Meltas

Warning! This is a long post! I recommend that you get a soda to drink while you read, preferably Pepsi as opposed to one of those insufficient rip-off Coke products. You have been warned!

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I am going to have to put the next addition of ‘Information from the Numbers’ on hold for a little while. Instead, I am going to be selfish and talk about a personal list. Please note that this is not simply a list that I am working on, it is one that I will be getting the minis for and making into my standard Tournament List, with a few changes if I want to play something less competitive.

I have already spent some time talking with Marshal Learoth (through email) about this list and we refined it to a certain extent; I have also play-tested it a few times (well, various versions of it) on Vassal; but I’m afraid that I’m not quite happy with it.

First off, how the list is right now:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Abhor) -110

Castellan: Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades; Terminator Command Squad (4): 2 Assault Cannons, Chainfist, Tank Hunters; Drop Pod; -321

Terminator Squad (5): 2 Assault Cannons, 2 Chainfists, Tank Hunters; Drop Pod; -295

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor, Smoke, Searchlight; Drop Pod; -154

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor, Smoke, Searchlight; Drop Pod; -154

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

So I’ve got six Crusader Squads with Missile Launchers and Plasma Guns in Drop Pods, a standard set of Typhoons, two Dreadnoughts with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers in Drop Pods, and two squads of Tank Hunting Terminators with Assault Cannons in Drop Pods- one of them led by a Castellan with a Storm. And of course I have the Emperor’s Champion. There is a total of 10 Drop Pods (one less than the absolute most I can have, a sacrifice in favor of the Terminators).

I found that what I wanted was a Gunline list that is Drop Pod based. Why? Well, I like how Drop Pods look (especially compared to Rhino Chassis, I must admit) and so if I am going to have a standard list I want it to be a Drop Pod one. As for the Gunline, I could go for Marshal Learoth’s goal of simply surviving with enough to contest everything except what I claim, but that just doesn’t sound like it would give me the satisfaction I’m looking for. I want to see blood, darn it. So a Gunline in Drop Pods it is.

However this presents a problem. With a Gunline I want LoS to as much of the board as possible without sacrificing the safety of my squads but Drop Pods block a large arc of sight, especially since I have been trying to bring down multiple Pods at the same place (to basically form vehicular Bubble-Wrap for my Squads) limiting my vision to a very select window (in fact, sometimes nothing). With limited LoS and limited range due to farther away Drop Pods the Missile Launcher isn’t doing quite so well.

How to solve this problem? Well, the obvious approach would be to completely drop the Heavy Weapons from my squads, in favor of either Power Weapons to make them more threatening or just using those points elsewhere. However I don’t like this solution because it detracts from my ability to shoot and I’m already having some difficulty destroying my opponent.

Another approach is to simply exchange the Missile Launchers for Multi-Meltas. First let’s look at Missile Launchers vs. Multi-Meltas. They cost the same price for the squad but they fill different rolls. For one, the Missile Launcher has Duality by being able to target Hordes effectively as well as Light Tanks, while the Multi-Melta is specialized against Tanks but is very reliable at it due to being AP 1 and having the Melta property. If we ignore the range difference (which we can in this case) we are comparing Duality to Reliability. Since they aren’t directly comparable, we are going to have to look at what I need in my army before we decide.

Alright, I have the ability to kill Infantry pretty well, but I could use a little more Light Anti-Tank (though I technically have enough, I’d just like some more) and I am in dire need of Anti-Heavy Tank. I had originally planned to kill Heavy Tanks by assaulting them with my Dreadnoughts or Terminators (hence, the Chainfists) but I have found that this is a flawed strategy. What do Land Raiders normally hold? Terminators. Not only that, but Assault Terminators. I come down in my pod, plink at the Land Raider with my Assault Cannons, and then get assaulted by what’s inside (always ending in my death while the Land Raider moves on to cause havoc). I have no way of countering this aside from flanking it with two units so that I can assault it with whichever one the Terminators ignore, and that is both hard to pull off and easily countered.

So I need to find replacement Anti-Heavy Tank. I’ve got some options here, I could get some Multi-Meltas on my Dreadnoughts (pretty easy to land within 12” once you count base size and disembarking distance), or I could get Multi-Meltas elsewhere, such as in Crusader Squads. But let’s wait on that and instead add up all of the special guns in my list currently and what they should be fired at (by that mean what they are best against and yes, I am going somewhere with this).

4 Tank Hunting Assault Cannons- Light Armor or Infantry

2 Assault Cannons- Light Armor or Infantry

2 Heavy Flamers- Infantry

12 Missile Launchers- Light Armor

6 Plasma Guns- Light Armor or Infantry

3 Heavy Bolters- Infantry

See a pattern? Yes, an Assault Cannon -can- penetrate a Land Raider, but more than likely it isn’t going to. Similarly, I can use all of my Missile Launchers to eventually glance them, maybe even get a lucky Immobilized result. But unless there is absolutely nothing else to shoot at or that Land Raider absolutely has to go down for me to have any chance whatsoever of winning, I would be wasting my shots.

So I think that I’ve established pretty solidly, I need GUNS that can RELIABLY kill HEAVY ARMOR in my list. I already have all of the other bases sufficiently coveredLascannons won’t manage, as high strength doesn’t equal Reliable; to get that I need something that can play around with penetration rolls (or is strength 11+). It has to be Gun-based so some more Chainfists won’t fit the bill. Now, I could take Meltaguns instead of Plasma Guns, but the range loss would hurt me too much since while there is little difference between 48” and 24”(or even the 12” that it basically is) when I can drop wherever, 24” to effectively 6” means that I won’t have the chance to effectively shoot vehicles before their passengers sally forth to attack me. All of these requirements leave only Multi-Meltas and Demolisher Cannons. Demolisher Cannons only come on a Platform that cannot Deep-Strike and costs too much to fit into this list, so they are out.

Multi-Meltas. Ideally, I want them on the Dreadnoughts and Land Speeders so that I can effectively increase their range by moving and firing, but they are cheaper and more plentiful in Crusader Squads so that is the best place to put them.

Alright, Multi-Meltas instead of Missile Launchers, a necessary minor change to the list with great consequences. If anyone is still unhappy about the range loss, I will play-test a few games and make a post about how it seemed to fair and if I lost any shots due to range.

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And now for some ideas about other changes that I’ve thought of. These changes I’m explaining for my own further understanding and practice in explanation as well as hopefully your improved understanding of the game. Here we go.

The first one that comes to mind is the MM/HF Speeder instead of the Typhoon. Slightly more expensive but it is specialized against both Infantry and Vehicles plus it is Fast Melta for greater ability to strike where I need. With the Drop Pods I can keep it behind cover (reducing the vulnerability problem that arises from closer range) while it waits for targets to approach or aims one gun around the Drop Pod and takes pot-shots. I’ve heard that it is successful in other lists and I could easily afford the upgrade by dropping the Chainfists; it may well be a viable option.

And now we move on to the Dreadnoughts. I mentioned an idea to give them Multi-Meltas because they can move 6” and then fire it (or fire it the turn they drop down), which is nearly as good as the MM/HF Speeder but it costs enough that I would have to switch the Castellan’s Storm Bolter out for a regular Bolter and drop their Searchlights and the Chainfists to afford the two Multi-Meltas I would need. Well, since the Chainfists aren’t really needed and since a Storm Bolter is really just a glorified Bolter then this shouldn’t be a problem and may be another good option.

However I can’t change both, but I’m not all that happy with the Chainfists any more and hey, Multi-Meltas are cool too. However, I would have to balance the loss: six Missile Launcher shots (my last six) and three Heavy Bolters for three Multi-Meltas and three Heavy Flamers, or two Assault Cannons for two Multi-Meltas?

Now, I would like to keep the Assault Cannons that the Dreadnoughts have and I feel like I’m wasting the range on the Typhoons, but I’m going to have to go with Multi-Meltas on the Dreadnoughts. I think that the change is worthwhile, even though it may not really be needed. Although it does give me a reliable way for my Distraction units to handle Heavy Armor like they were originally intended to do. So my final list looks like this:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Abhor) -110

Castellan: Bolter, Frag Grenades; Terminator Command Squad (4): 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters; Drop Pod; -312

Terminator Squad (5): 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters; Drop Pod; -285

Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor, Smoke; Drop Pod; -163

Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor, Smoke; Drop Pod; -163

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Drop Pod; -126

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, -70

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Alright, thank you for letting me spew forth my thoughts and reasoning to help improve my list. This may be fairly useless to any who read it but it has really helped me and I hope that it can help you.

However, I am curious to know what anyone thinks about the list. Not specifically any ways to improve it but just a general opinion or any thoughts or questions. May the Emperor be with you.

Information from the Numbers -part 1

As I mentioned in my last post I have been busy making a great many calculations determining the most efficient units our codex has. I thought that I would share those units with you in order of most to least.

EDIT: something to keep in mind is that this is based off of offensive output entirely and ignores things like Defensive abilities.

1: The Land Speeder Typhoon. This should be pretty self-explanatory.

2: The Auto/Las Predator. Again, no real surprise here, though the fact that it comes so close behind the Typhoon is worth noting.

3: The Tri-Las Predator. It is sometimes worth taking this over the Auto/Las, specifically if you need more Anti-Heavy Armor or more Anti-Infantry (surprisingly enough) or if you have an extra 60 points to spend. It isn’t as efficient as the Auto/Las where it counts but it does come close and gets better numbers (not counting points).

4: Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer Speeder. There is a reason that this is sometimes taken over the Typhoon. Personally, I think that the extra range makes the Typhoon a much better choice.

5: Maximum sized Biker Squadron with 3 Plasma Guns and a Multi-Melta Attack Bike. This one is the first surprising one yet. It costs a ton but is three times as effective as the Typhoon against both Infantry and light vehicles plus it has a Multi-Melta to handle Heavy Armor. The problem? It costs a little more than three Typhoons and has less range. So it isn’t worth taking over the Typhoon, but it is still quite good.

6: Venerable Assault Cannon/Missile Launcher Dreadnought with Tank Hunting. The first non-Heavy Support/Fast Attack unit. Infantry is threatened, Heavy Armor is threatened, Light Armor is threatened, Horde is even threatened, and in a pinch it can still tar-pit Close Combat units, even ones with Meltabombs or Powerfists/Thunder Hammers, without sacrificing much shooting ability in the list.

7: Las/Plas Squad in Razorback. Yup, a troops choice. Troops aren’t great, and we have touched on every other kind of unit (HQs excluded) first, but we don’t have a bad troop choice. This is a solid little choice, even though it costs a fair amount for one unit.

8: Multi-Melta/Plas Squad in Rhino. Yes, another troop choice that is distinctly different from the last one. For reference, if they were in a Razorback they would even top the Las/Plas Squad but Multi-Meltas don’t have the range to act as a foot unit while their Razorback goes off to act on its own so they get a Rhino. Not too expensive and with the Plasma Gun they make quite good 24” range Bunkers. Take that Tactical Squads!

9: Tank Hunting Cyclone Terminators. Surprised that they’re this far down on the list? They would be placed farther down if I didn’t assume the “Accept Any Challenge” was chosen, which means that they are only here if they also take the rolls Counter-Assault or Aggressive; otherwise, the Venerable Tank Hunting Assault Cannon/Heavy Flamer Dreadnought would go here. They are often taken, and their ability to keep firing after they’ve been hit (unlike vehicles aka most of the previous choices) means that they aren’t worse than everything above them, just less efficient.

10: Power of the Machine Spirit Vindicator. Range causes some problems but you also have the option for it to stay close and make the midfield a killing ground (you don’t even need Extra Armor for that and an Immobilized result does almost nothing). Very destructive and lethal to everything, but expensive and easily neutralized. Not best but not bad either, though nowhere near as good as Predators with Lascannon Sponsons.

11+: Other good units that aren’t quite as high as these ones (and not already mentioned) include regular Assault Cannon/Missile Launcher or Heavy Flamer Dreadnoughts, Venerable Tank Hunting Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer Dreadnought, regular TL Las/Missile Launcher Dreadnought as well as the Venerable Tank Hunting version, Plasma/Plasma Squad in Rhino or Razorback, 5-man Squad in Razorback with Power Weapon and Meltagun (assuming “Accept Any Challenge”), and Tank Hunting Assault Cannon Terminators in a Drop Pod.

What’s missing: Of course, there are a few units that simply don’t make the cut, despite what some people believe. One glaringly obvious one is the standard Combat Crusader Squad (8/2 w/ Powerfist and Meltagun in Rhino); a possible flaw in this system is how dependant it is on ability to kill light armor, which this unit does not do well and for a really high cost (it is, however, worth noting that while it is more efficient than a 5-man Squad in a Rhino with Power Weapon and Meltagun, it is not much more efficient and it may be quite worth getting multiple smaller squads as opposed to fewer large ones). Another one is Assault Squads; I’ve heard of taking a 10-man assault squad and a Chaplain with Jump Pack, but that unit is in no way worthy of being taken. Not even smaller, more efficient Assault Squads are very effective since they are taken to handle Heavy Armor (such as Land Raiders) but most of the time you won’t fight against Land Raiders so they become only marginally as effective as you need them to be.

Please realize that I have not tested every possible combination or build for every possible unit, but I have checked every unit with the best set-ups (as I believe) as well as the most common ones. I have also ignored things like Crusader Squads on foot and included certain upgrades which should come standard even though they do not help the score, a good example being Rhinos (when I assumed Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers).

So do you want to know which list gets the best numbers while still being a strong list in-and-of itself?

EDIT: Well I'm still working on it. I thought I had it until I was pointed to a mistake and so I had to rework the list. I did so, and thought I had it, until I double checked with another list which actually has better numbers despite seeming to be an inferior list. In the next post I will include a final list, sorry.

That’s all for now, next time I’ll be working on a Template list that meets the needs of Nikephoros’s Metric system at a minimal cost so that you can add in units that you like, regardless of how good they are.

Crusader Squad options.

Recently I've been running through numbers on the Black Templar units and weapons. At this point I have an excel sheet saved that has the DMS, DMCC, DRPG, DLRPG, and adjusted values of those numbers based on the points value of the unit, and another set of numbers based off of weighted averages of those values, for every commonly chosen unit that is available to the Black Templars as well as separate sections for whether or not Accept Any Challenge has been chosen.

Yeah, I have too much time on my hands.

However, I have learned from all of this several bits of information (that are actually rather helpful and I will be doing probably daily or semi-daily posts concerning each one worth noting along with a big post at the end. The first one is Crusader Squad Weapons.

No, I don't mean Bolters vs. Chainswords (though I will glance over it), I mean Heavy and Special Weapon choices.

First off, I like Bolters. I like how they work, I like how they look, I like their name...there is just nothing that normally brings me to choose something beside Bolters for my Marines (Close Combat Squads excluded, but they are for a later post). But in reality, whichever one you go with should be based on how you intend the squad to get used.

Now, I'm going to cover the Special Weapons first since there are only three of them and can get finished with quickly. First off, we have Flamers. Flamers kill infantry and are AP5. Bolters do that. Bolters are free. Didn't choose Bolters? Bolt Pistols, plus a bunch of attacks in Close Combat. Try again.

The Meltagun. Bane of Land Raiders, capable of making even the smallest of Scout Squads a threat to most armies, coming in at 10 points. Personally, I don't see spamming Melta as the best strategy, maybe in conjunction with Missile Launchers, but not by itself and not in the same squad. It has a place, but the short range and even shorter effective range plus low RoF makes this an option for when you need it, not standard.

The Plasma Gun. I've heard that the Plasma Gun was THE weapon of 4th edition. Personally, I think that it is still a pretty good choice. Cheaper than the Meltagun, better against Infantry, better against light vehicles, longer range, sounds good. Of course, there is the threat of killing yourself and since it is per shot you've got a lot of chances to kill yourself. If we had worse saves, I would be concerned. As it is, I can stand to lose a couple of guys each game to my own weapons.

So, Plasma Gun standard, with the option for the Meltagun should there be the need. On to Heavy Weapons.

Now, I'm going to ignore Power Weapons and Powerfists since they are for squads that are built for Close Combat and will be covered more in-depth in a later post. Basically, take the Powerfist as it is the more efficient at killing MEq and gives you a shot at killing vehicles.

We've got the Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Multi-Melta, Lascannon, and Plasma Cannon. Personally, I would like Heavy Bolters to be a viable choice, because they're like Bolters but bigger and better. Unfortunately, for them to be viable the rest of the weapons would need to either be non-existent or so overly priced Heavy Bolters would be taken standard most of the time as a reflex.

Heavy Bolters make you better against Infantry, increase your range, and give you a shot against light vehicles. They come cheap, but don't provide the squad with the Duality that it needs. Maybe next Codex (I can only hope).

Missile Launchers. The 40k Swiss Army knife. It has an optimal setting for everything except Land Raiders. Not too expensive plus being relatively effective, sort of like the Plasma Gun. Worth choosing in many situations but is often neglected in favor of the Lascannon for anti-Heavy Tank.

Speaking of, the Lascannon gives the squad the ability to fairly effectively hurt absolutely anything (as effectively as you can hurt Monoliths). There are better weapons for the jobs, but not many and not for everything. Of course, there is a price tag which isn't unreasonable. If you are concerned about killing Infantry, take something more efficient at it, but you'd be sacrificing some anti-vehicle in the process so do so carefully.

For Infantry, none of these options are as effective, nor efficient, as the Plasma Cannon. Not great against Vehicles and won't fire one in six times (probably failing about once per game per cannon) and can hurt you, but I don't know of anything else that is quite as good against Terminators (hang on a moment, nope, even Assault Cannons aren't as good). Of course, this advantage also applies to MEq so it is pretty versatile. It's kind of like the Missile Launchers, able to do everything. The problem is that it is worse against Vehicles and isn't as reliable when firing at Infantry (though it is still more deadly), plus it can kill the user. It comes in at a very expensive price, but if you really need some extra help against Infantry, then this is the gun for you hands down.

Finally, the Multi-Melta. Not even the Lascannon can claim rivarly once you get in Melta range on any count. Cheaper than it, same damage to Infantry, better against vehicles. Of course, if you are out of that 12" range then the Multi-Melta losses much of its goodness, but it is still AP 1 so a Glancing hit can kill and you've got more reliability compared to any other weapon (no Shaken result on a penetrating hit and more things asploding!). In a Rhino the range problem is lessened and you start to force your opponent into taking or not taking certain actions based on the threat bubble it causes (especially if you've got several in mid-field).

Now let's look at some numbers. Using a simple algorithm to grade each weapon based on potential damage in various areas and cost, I've come up with this ranking:

1.Multi-Melta
2.Missile Launcher
3.Lascannon
4.Plasma Cannon
5.Heavy Bolter

Unfortunately, the Plasma Cannon and Heavy Bolter both scored really low. A great deal of the reason for that is because you rarely need to be worried about what they're good at and if you lack where they do, you will be fighting a long uphill battle. The Multi-Melta sailed ahead of the others, but it is limited by range to only a select few uses and, were it counted as being out of Melta range, it would only rank at the same place as the Missile Launcher (AP1 but half the range so probably considered below). The Missile Launcher and the Lascannon were extremely close, so due to the plenty of Missile Launchers available through Typhoons choosing the Lascannon for the strength against Heavy Tanks isn't a bad idea since other ways of killing heavy tanks aren't exactly plentiful to us.

So, generally the Lascannon is the best choice. Occasionally it would be better to take the Missile Launcher and the advantages of the Multi-Melta should not be over-looked. But do you know what's good about this? The general opinion (when not confused by the Chain Swords) matches what I've gone over so I know I'm being pretty accurate.

Final thoughts: Combining Special and Heavy Choices. Now, one thing that attracts me to the Multi-Melta is the range. 24" maximum and 12" effective. The same as Plasma Guns and Bolters. So a Multi-Melta/Plasma Gun Combination in a Squad with Bolters remains at the same effect at whatever distance you are. The Kill-Zone remains the same on all weapons. Contrast that with taking a 48" Heavy and a Meltagun (or worse, a Flamer), and you're usually firing but you aren't firing all of your weapons, thus less effectively than you should.

Anyway, I've gone on for long enough. This has given me the chance to put out my thoughts and has done little else. Goodnight!