Escalation, After a Thousand

Alright, this will be a quick update on the Escalation League I mentioned a month or two ago, with an update at the end.

Last month I went with an Assault Cannon/Storm Bolter Dreadnought in a Drop Pod, a Castellan with Power Weapon, Bolter and Holy Orb, and two Crusader Squads: One with a Neophyte and Missile Launcher, the other with four Neophytes, a Flamer and a Drop Pod. Those games did not go well, as I lost all three.

However, while deciding on my list for this month I looked back at my previous list and realized that it did not provide me with the tools to face anything I was going to face. An assault cannon, a missile launcher, a flamer and some bolters? So my thousand-point list was much better built.

Now, part of the reason was that I have since picked up quite a few new toys. I now have three Typhoons, two Rhinos, Plasma Guns, Meltaguns, and a fifth Powerfist Terminator so that I can field the squad without an HQ choice to accompany it. So my thousand point list was as follows:

*Emperor's Champion: Vow (Abhor);
*Terminator Squad (5): 2 CML, Tank Hunters;
*Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight;
*Crusader Squad (5): Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun; Rhino: Smoke Launchers, Searchlight;
*Crusader Squad (5/4): Meltagun; Drop Pod;
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter;
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter;
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter;
Total:-999

Now I have firepower. I was kind of concerned about only two troops, and in the last game I would have liked to have another, but they did fine. Anyway, compare: 12 Missiles to 1, and an additional three Heavy Bolters. Tank Hull to protect my home squad instead of an extra Neophyte and a more effective Dreadnought.

First game was against Eldar. I killed all of 4-5 models, one of which was pure luck and the others in Close Combat by my Emperor's Champion. I had that bad of shooting for the whole game. I missed three times with my Meltagun. I shook one of his two tanks once. And yet, I would have tied the game if I had just killed one of his tanks with the Meltagun.

Second game was against a really terrible Grey Knight list. 4 Models. The 500 point version had 3. Draigo, two single Paladins, and the fourth was a 500 point Librarian with all the fixin's. Thanks to my mass of firepower and my ability to shoot what I wanted (plus some poor rolls on his part) I tabled him 35 minutes after we started setting up. And yet he had a great time, probably because he wasn't expecting much from them (mostly just trying to get the games done when he could, otherwise it would count as a loss for us both when the month ended), and partially because it just went so fast (he did kill my Terminators though).

Third game was against Tyranids. I realized just before this that I had the ability to pretty much kill a Monstrous Creature per turn, plus all of the small blasts meant I wasn't especially concerned. We called the game early  at the end of turn 5 because the store was closing and I was claiming two Objectives, contesting a third, and he had one. He had a single Hive Guard and two smallish units of Termagants (one in combat with my Terminators), while I still had a large portion of my force left.

The scoring is simply 3 points per win, 1 point per draw, and 1 point per month for using a painted army. Now at the half-way point for the league, I have 8 points out of a potential...26. So after the first month where I had three losses (but with a painted army, so yeah), I'm not doing too well, but I am playing against more people and getting better known, so things are going fairly well.

Anyway, on to the update I mentioned before. I have an almost finalized list for the 1,500 point month, but I would appreciate any opinions on what's missing or queries for why something is the way it is. Here's the list:

*Emperor's Champion: Vow (Accept); -140
*Marshal: Bolter, Power Weapon, Holy Orb; -106
*Terminator Squad (5): 2 CML, TH; -265
*Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Venerable, TH, Smoke; -148
*Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter, DCCW, Extra Armor; Drop Pod; -150
*Crusader Squad (5/3): PF, Meltagun, Frags; Drop Pod; -173
*Crusader Squad (5): Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Rhino: Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor; -154
*Crusader Squad (5): Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun; Rhino: Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor; -154
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter; -70
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter; -70
*Land Speeder: Typhoon, Heavy Bolter; -70
Total:-1,500

There is also new (for any interested) a Win/Draw/Loss record for all of my games. Right now it's not looking too good, and you have to keep in mind that these are mostly just pick-up games at my local store, but it's getting better.

Tournament Results, Part 2.

Once again I should apologize to anyone who regularly checks to see if I have made any new posts. School this semester really occupies both my time and my thinking, plus my weekly visits to my FLGS suck a fair amount of my time and I’m still trying to catch up on sleep. So while I apologize once more, I also want to say right now that there probably won’t be anymore posts until school is over (after the first week in May). However I do have an actual post for now.

Those nine games I played have demonstrated to me a few things. Part 1 was getting kind of long, and was more intended to give a brief summary of each game but here I want to look at some of the lessons I’ve learned from finally getting to play test all of my lists.

Game 4 demonstrated an innate weakness in the DDP style of list. It struggles with those big units of Terminators. Whether through a strategy I haven’t discovered or a change to the list, I need to be able to handle those (as they form the back-bone of at least three popular types of lists and are common enough otherwise to demand some attention). This problem may exist in other lists but those enjoy the distance to have more time to pound them, so I need some way that a Drop Pod list can specifically deal with them.

Game 5 demonstrated that the theory behind using nothing but TL-Lascannons as Anti-Tank (not entirely true, as I also had Plasma Guns and the Dreadnoughts were armed with Missile Launchers) isn’t a perfect idea. It lacks the number of results on the damage table to reliably kill vehicles, despite re-rolling to hit and the high-strength. It may have just been the horrendous rolling, but the problem is still there.

Game 2 (I’m out of order, deal with it) suggested something a little more…drastic. The winning list that time essentially just used Drop Pods instead of Rhinos for transports. It still had Predators and Land Speeders and about half of the army started on the board. My thoughts were that this would hinder the list by allowing all of the fire to be directed at a few targets, leaving the reserved portion of the list lacking support when it came down (thus, Rhinos should be a better choice for the list). Surprisingly enough, this didn’t happen. Whether it was because of the terrain or because I didn’t target correctly or move correctly or whatever, it suggests that Drop Pods and Rhinos are essentially little different unless you want to do something that the Drop Pod just can’t do (such as fire out of the hatch). Is the cheaper price of Drop Pods worth the potential disadvantages? I don’t know, but it is something that I need to do some research on once I am done with this Tournament thingy (so a long-term plan).

Game 3 made it clear that S5 is not an Anti-Tank weapon. Not even massed S5. And S6 isn’t really either. Add to that my experiences with S3 in Close Combat from Game 6, and I’ve learned something more. Unless you are rolling with a 50% chance or better on the roll (each individual roll, not combined), you are setting yourself up for failure. You are just not likely enough to succeed to get reliable results unless you have A LOT of dice that you’re rolling (given that somewhere around 18 dice is only enough to get maybe 1-2 successes, I really mean a lot). To demonstrate this, in Game 6 I charged a unit of Terminators with 11 Termagants. 22 Attacks, something like 17-18 hits at S3. 3 wounds. Not average? No, but still a reasonable result. What is the other end of a reasonable number of wounds in this case? 9 wounds. If those Termagants were S4 or had poison, 9 wounds would be average, and with luck like what I actually got, I would have had 6 (based here on the chances, not necessarily the actual rolls). So, double the effectiveness even though only half-again the chance. That is the weakness of S3 against Infantry, or S6 against Vehicles, or basically anything relying on basically a 5+. You need better. I need better. And I will be keeping that in mind when I make lists and decisions during games. By the way, this is also very good reason not to include glancing hits in Nike’s Metric System: their average doesn’t accurately represent how they’ll do.

So over all, I will have to be making some changes to at least some of my lists. A lot of the changes will be to the Tyranid lists, as I am less confident in my ability with them and I have seen some of my failures there, but I might be making some posts about changes to the Black Templar lists; we’ll see.

As for what those changes will be, they are straight from the examples above. I need to be able to put results on the damage table against vehicles. I also need to continue to look at how Drop Pod based lists do. So far, it seems that without a good number of Drop Pods (to be landing several down at once) the squads tend to die (which is easily predicted), so at low-points the list looks like it would fall apart. Lastly, I need to make sure that I’m not using mid-strength weapons as my primary anti-tank options (such as Plasma Guns).

One final note: I don’t remember all of the promises I made about posting up lists and, rather than checking back to remember, I’ve decided to just not post them without a request from someone to do so, and here’s why. Someone on YTTH (I believe TKE) mentioned that he’s stopped reading list-building articles because he doesn’t gain anything from them, and that made me realize: I’ve been doing the same thing. I’ve stopped reading list-building articles unless they’re by someone I talk to (like Marshal Learoth or Algesan) or on YTTH (and only then Black Templar and Tyranid ones). So, not being a fantastic list-builder myself, I’m going to stop doing those kinds of posts unless someone asks me to or I think I’ve stumbled onto an idea that I should share (which won’t happen until our new codex, so…).

Tournament Results, Part 1.

I’ve decided to go through a tournament of sorts. But I don’t want to call it a tournament, because it only involves me and my lists, and when you think of a tournament you think of, well, a tournament. But the only other thing I can think of to call it is a gauntlet, and I know that isn’t as accurate. So we’ll call it a ‘tournament’.

The point of this is to get some practice in with all of my lists and hopefully to practice making clear descriptions of battles. I’ve got 18 lists between my Tyranids and Black Templars, though not all are equal. To keep the number of games down, I’m going to use a simple win/loss elimination system.

Here are the match-ups for the first round:

Assault Drop (Templar) vs. Comp. List (Templar)

Best of List (Templar) vs. Disruption (Templar)

Bolterback (Templar) vs. Warrior (Tyranid)

Foot List (Templar) vs. Drop Pod (Templar)

Casual Drop Pod (Templar) vs. Lasbolter (Templar)

Aftermath (Templar) vs. Shooty (Tyranid)

PotMS (Templar) vs. First List (Tyranid)

Black Tide (Templar) vs. Close Combat (Tyranid)

Variant (Templar) vs. Variety (Tyranid)

Low-Troop (Templar) vs. Stealer Shock (Tyranid)

I randomly determined which lists would fight, and if there are any questions as to the general nature or structure of any lists (because, you know, those names are so descriptive) I will be more than happy to answer them. I will also include either short descriptions of each or links to where you can see the lists.

1^st game: Assault Drop vs. Comp. List. 5 Objectives, Pitched Battle, Assault Drop goes first

Both of these can be found on my blog, and I wasn’t sure how either of them would do as they are both ones that I built because of their apparent novelty, rather than a sound battle-plan behind them. What it ended up being was an insanely close game where almost all of the troops died, leaving two stuck in combat with each other and the Comp. List winning 1-0. It came down to if either the Typhoons could kill that one Initiate claiming the winning Objective (protected by cover and the Emperor’s Champion who had only one wound left) or they finally won the combat in the next turn, then it would be a tie. But the next round did not come.

2^nd game: Best of List vs. Disruption. 5 Objectives, Pitched Battle, Best of List goes first

The Best of List can be found on B&C, as well as here on the blog. The Disruption list was based on an idea that I had a while back when Marshal Learoth was first trying to recreate Tony Kopach’s list and I got to thinking about how to include various disruption elements into my lists (hence, the name). What eventually decided the game was the Disruption list being able to push the Best of List off of a couple of objectives with little effort. They weren’t able to claim one of those, but they did deny it and won the game 2-1. Yet again, a close game which, had a few engagements gone in the other side’s favor, would have turned out quite differently.

3^rd game: Bolterback vs. Warrior. 2 Objectives, Dawn of War, Bolterback goes first

The Bolterback list was basically just something that I made trying to get Razorbacks with TL-Heavy Bolters to fit into a working list. I mostly succeeded, but there are better ways to go. The Warrior list was something that Stelek first thought of before the Tyranid Codex had come out (I looked back at his early Tyranid lists and articles); the premise is that there are simply so many Warriors that you just can’t kill them all despite Instant Death. And so they got tabled. Too many shots ignoring their armor, too little anti-tank, it was a massacre, 2-0 and annihilation. Man I rolled a lot of S5 shots…

4^th game: Foot List vs. Drop Pod. Kill Points, Pitched Battle, Foot List goes first

So, a list I’ve never tested (you can find it somewhere on here) against a list I’ve thoroughly tested, but never against something like this. Let’s do this thing! Well, the Foot list won at 13-11, but that is a little deceiving when you consider that the Drop Pod list killed all 15 Terminators and all the Foot List had left were two Crusader Squads, numbering 4 and 1, both stuck in Close Combat with Dreadnoughts. Oh yeah, and I hate being Fearless in Close Combat.

5^th game: Casual Drop Pod vs. Lasbolter. Kill Points, Pitched Battle, Lasbolter goes first

Both of these can be found, but you’ll have to do some searching for the Lasbolter (one of the List Building articles, however I’ve since made a couple of adjustments, but it is still essentially the same list) while the Casual Drop Pod is hidden beneath my regular one in the same article. I have never seen such frustrating dice. I know, I know, I haven’t seen that many dice when you think about it, but it wasn’t one-sided or anything. It was just general inability of units to kill things and there really isn’t anything I could have done to improve my chances. The game only went for five turns (Casual Drop Pod winning 6-4; yes, out of a possible 40 KILL POINTS that were available only 10 were claimed), but there were so many shots that didn’t penetrate or only Shook/Stunned their targets (or just didn’t Wreck, I think I got three legitimate Wrecks and Explosions; with all of that Melta and Open-Topped, that just isn’t right).

6^th game: Aftermath vs. Shooty. 2 Objectives, Spearhead, Shooty goes first

The Aftermath, like the Disruption, was made due to the thoughts and ideas coming out of NOVA Open, except that this one is for the 2011 tournament, rather than just remaking the winning list from 2010. I think you can find it in the September-October archives. The Shooty list is just that, I was attempting to make a Gunline Tyranid list (difficult when most of their guns are less than 18” range). Because the Aftermath list had three units of Terminators (which are neigh-invulnerable, can bring down Monstrous Creatures, and can bring down hordes) the Tyranids just couldn’t break through their line with more than a few Termagants (who got shot to death the next turn) while the Aftermath list (which I had adjusted to include two Close Combat squads in Drop Pods) was able to get a Crusader Squad and 2 Terminators to contest the Tyranid’s Objective and won on T5 1-0.

7^th game: PotMS vs. First List. 5 Objectives, Spearhead, PotMS goes first

The PotMS list is self explanatory, and can be found somewhere. The First List is, descriptively, my first serious attempt at a Tyranid list (and I thought that, after a few changes, was worth keeping). Unfortunately, the PotMS list did not have enough firepower to take advantage of the limited Synapse that the First List had (a Hive Tyrant and two Tervigons with Dominion). The Tyranids just overran the Black Templars until the Synapse finally began to die, at which point the Tyranids lost much of their effectiveness and only barely were able to win 3-2, controlling the deciding objective in the second-to-last phase of the game (their shooting phase on T7). Overall, a very close game but I need to better learn how to use those Vindicators, as they were dead by T2 and killed very little (because the Tyranids spread out to reduce damage, and the Vindicators have no other options), although when two exploded they killed something like 20 Hormagaunts.

8^th game: Black Tide vs. Close Combat. 5 Objectives, Spearhead, Black Tide goes first

The Black Tide can be found a few posts below. The Close Combat, like the Shooty and the First List, is exactly what it sounds like. On the fifth round, thanks to a few unlucky armor saves, the Tyranids annihilated the Templars. There are three things that decided the outcome. First was that I used the Terminators wrong, I employed them to control mid-field but I should have used them to support the horde squads against things like Monstrous Creatures (which they only have a Powerfist against). Second was that the list is just bad because it lacks the fire-power needed to kill those Monstrous Creatures, and there really aren’t many options to get that fire-power. Third was that the large Crusader Squads just aren’t very good. They cost a large number of points but were too few and too weak (even with supporting Independent Characters) to go and claim an Objective by themselves. Essentially Black Tide is just bad.

9^th game: Variant vs. Variety. 4 Objectives, Dawn of War, Variety goes first

Apologies for the similar names; the Variant will be up sometime soon, while the Variety is a list I made by starting with a wish-list of all the things I wanted in a Tyranid list (mostly units that I liked) and then tried to make a good list that included all of them, to some success. Essentially, the Tyranid list just couldn’t cope with all of the tanks and high-strength shots (especially those Vindicators). A shooty list that was getting out-shot…it didn’t go well. Final score was Templar victory, 3-1 though another round could have seen 2-1.

10^th game: Low-Troop vs. Stealer Shock. 2 Objectives, Dawn of War, Stealers goes first

The Low-Troop list is also due to getting a post about it, but with everything that I have lined up I’m not entirely sure when that’ll be. The Stealer Shock I started because I needed just one more list for this tournament and it was rather unique, the name should be descriptive (though it is worth noting that it has 9 Zoanthropes). So between my forgetting about having Abhor the Witch so often, the imecable 3++ saves on the Zoanthropes, and the 40+ Outflanking Genestealers who all crowded on the edge they wanted, it didn’t go well for Templars as the Tyranids won 2-0. There was still an Initiate, a Typhoon, and the Venerable Dreadnought (albeit, the Typhoon was immobilized and without its Missile Launchers with a Tervigon coming at it, the Initiate was in combat with a half-score of Termagants, and the Dreadnought was immobilized and weaponless in combat with a dozen Genestealers and two Broodlords).

And that’s all of them. I’ve got another round to do between the winners and I’m strongly considering using the Centurion system for the missions (I’ve got a PDF bookmarked, so we’ll see how useful it is). Don’t worry, as there are fewer battles I will get into more and more detail (not to the extent of my first Vassal Battle-Report, but still better than one paragraph).

Escalation League, 500 points

I know that in my reply to Algesan's comment on my last post I said something about what would be in the next post (this one) but I haven't finished writing that and something has come up.

I've signed up for an escalation league at my FLGS, what used to be called First Chance Last Chance Games but now is something like Who's Gaming House. It begins at 500 points and moves up by 500 points each month until it reaches 2,000 points. 3 games a month, which have to be scheduled by the players of each game to get together and play. Fortunately, there are no special missions or rules or anything, just rolling from the Rule Book. In the first month I'm against (in no particular order) Orks, Dark Eldar, and Dark Angels. That is this month and I have a game this Tuesday.

Each player is allowed only a single list each month, and I have to decide on one by this Tuesday (about 6pm). Now, I'm limited to what I have and 500 points, and even though I've drafted 3 500 point lists to try I want some input on the them.

First list: Drop Podding-

Castellan: Bolter, Power Weapon, Holy Orb, Frags; -92
Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, DCCW, Storm Bolter, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers; Drop Pod; -143
Crusader Squad (5/4): Boltersx3, BP/CSx5, Flamer, Frag Grenades; Drop Pod; -165
Crusader Squad (5/1): Boltersx4, BP/CSx1, Missile Launcher; -100

Total:-500

Here I'm trying to take advantage of the two Drop Pods that I have and also trying to not simply have a foot list. Plus, the practical experience with the Drop Pods will help me to know when to pod in the units and when to start them on the board.

Second List: Terminators-

Castellan: Bolter, Power Weapon, Frags, Kraks, Auspex; -86
Terminator Command Squad (4): 2xCML, Tank Hunters; -228
Crusader Squad (5): Missile Launcher, Boltersx5; -90
Crusader Squad (5/1); Boltersx3, BP/CSx2, Flamer; -96

Total:-500

I made this list as an option because I wanted some way to use my Terminators and their Cyclones. But by doing so I really just make it a deathstar list. However, that much firepower keeps this list among the possibilities.

Third List: Hoofing It-

Castellan: Bolter, Holy Orb, Power Weapon; -91
Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Smoke Launchers; -118
Crusader Squad (5/2): Boltersx2, BP/CSx3, Multi-Melta, Flamer; -116
Crusader Squad (5): Boltersx4, Missile Launcher; -90
Crusader Squad (5): Boltersx4, Heavy Bolter; -85

Total:-500

Here I'm just going full foot. A big bonus for this one is that it has 3 Troops which will help me in Objective games. Plus, with the Multi-Melta it has a reliable source of Anti-Land Raider that isn't melee or S9 based. So definitely a contender when taking a transport cuts way down on my firepower plus having two dedicated Objective Holders.

So what are people's thoughts? Stuff that I have that isn't on these lists is a Chaplain in Terminator Armor, a Techmarine (with Servo-Harness), another Terminator, another Heavy Bolter and maybe a couple of Initiates, in case any of those things would be better suited to being in any of the lists. Which one would be best? Are there any changes that should be made? Should I use something different than any of these (I don't know, maybe just one Drop Pod with Terminators or something)?

Black Templars Fluff, Part 3

First off I need to apologize for my absence. Between the holidays getting done with and school starting (and getting Modern Warfare 3 for Christmas) I have just been too tired or otherwise engaged to write, which means no blog posts. On the plus side I have gotten in a couple of actual games against an actual opponent (!). Granted, I lost both times but I am getting a better idea of what in my arsenal is effective and what I’m doing wrong, so things are going uphill.

Anyway, I’ve gone over what the Black Templars’ fluff is and how they are portrayed, but a question still remains: “How do you make a Fluffy Black Templars list?” Well, we’d have to check the specific unit entries in the codex to see any requirements or limitations on them that aren’t applied in the rules, but first let’s talk about basic structure.

We’ve got two obvious directions at first based on the tactics we are given: Drop Pods and Mechanized. Drop Pods are fairly straightforward, but for Mechanized you could argue between a close combat focus and a more shooty approach. You could also split the Mechanized lists into ‘Heavy’ and ‘Light’ depending on whether or not you are using Land Raiders.

Okay, Drop Pod armies (including ones which have more Deepstriking than just the pods) are basically valid fluff-wise with exceptions for specific units which we’ll look at later. As for Mechanized, it should basically function as a Space Marine army, but also have a predominant close-range focus. I don’t mean you shouldn’t take any weapons with a range greater than 12”, I just mean that, in general, your army should excel at Bolter range rather than farther away.

Now then, let’s tackle those specific units. Just from memory, I know that some units will be more available in larger forces, which raises an important question: “Is a list the entire crusade/fighting company, or just one section of a larger battle?” This is a valid question considering that it determines some crippling inclusions in your list. If you assume that it is the full force, then you need a Marshal, Chaplain, and probably a Techmarine, which aren’t very efficient purchases, and taking all three will have lasting consequences for your list. So I’m going to assume that this is not the full army, but just the area that has the greatest importance on the overall outcome or something (think of a justification that you’re happy with).

I’ll be going over the units as detailed fluff-wise in the codex (not in the order they are given for stats, but before that). Some of these have restrictions but those are almost never specifically stated, so be prepared for a lot of subjectivity to this (as there should be). Also be warned that no vehicles (except Dreadnoughts) are described, and thus I have left out; think of them as supportive elements and less important.

Initiates. They are the backbone, so be sure to take some. :) And yes, most of them should have Bolters, but feel free to take a few armed for close combat. Assault Squads are mentioned here as well, and are basically intended to be your close combat units rather than Crusader Squads. This should be given special attention. In a truly fluffy list you will not have those Powerfist/Meltagun Crusader Squads. The Crusader Squads would be more all-purpose or shooty while the assault contingent is made up mostly by Assault Marines.

Neophytes. You can have a few, but the codex isn’t very clear on how much of the force are Neophytes. Only about a dozen per year are enlisted, so keep in mind that they are probably rare.

Sword Brethren. Once again, not many clues as to how many compared to Initiates, but assume not a whole lot. Terminators are included here, and remember that they are technically taken for their Powerfists, not their guns.

The High Marshal. Okay, one special character out of about 5,000 guys who are spread out over the entire Imperium. Just how important is your little ‘battle’? Not a single significant threat to the Imperium? Yeah, he’s probably not there.

Marshals and Castellans. Not much requirements here aside from a general (and loose) rule of thumb that bigger armies should have Marshals while smaller ones should take Castellans. However, there I the one caveat that Marshals leads Crusades, Castellans lead Fighting Companies, so select accordingly. For example, I have a fighting company (plans on that sometime in the future) and so I should use a Castellan; Marshal Learoth has a Crusade and so can either use a Marshal or a Castellan (since the Castellan could be leading a single fighting company of the Crusade).

The Emperor’s Champion. Yes.

Techmarines. Not much to limit them, but you should probably keep it down to one of them, maybe two in a large force. They’re technically supposed to basically be Initiates but with a strong loyalty to the Machine, so there really isn’t much of a connection between how many vehicles you have and how many Techmarines you should have.

Dreadnoughts. Similar to the High Marshal in that they are really only brought out when they are needed, so this is situational but if you can think of cause to take them feel free because their numbers are already limited to three with no more than a single Venerable.

Apothecaries. At your leisure, but neither required nor restricted.

Chaplains. Kind of like Commanders, they’re available. Nothing mentioned about Reclusiarch vs. Master of Sanctity, so choose at your own discretion (once again, however, size could affect this).

Land Raider Crusader. If you’re tackling (or going to tackle) enemy fortifications (or if you’re fighting in a city, or something), then these become available. But they have a role that they play and it is not for every battle.

Grimaldus. There’s really not much I can say about him. He’s almost like any chaplain you might invent, except he probably isn’t in your army. I suppose there really isn’t anything keeping you from taking him aside from the point limit in the codex though.

So when we’ve taken all of this, what would a fluffy list look like? Well, it could probably look a whole lot like pretty much any competitive Black Templars list out there, with PotMS and some Gunlines being potential exceptions because of their focus on longer ranges. But something such as my ‘Best of Black Templars’ list? Which is mostly intended to get 12-24” away from the enemy? Yes, that fits all of the parameters rather nicely. Mechanized column, Land Speeders shielding the outskirts, close-range; except for the Dreadnoughts (which can be explained, though every battle could be challenging) and the standard size for the Crusader Squads (which is excusable), it’s a fluffy list.

However, to be fair a better example of a fluffy list would be Algesan’s Deepstrike list. It’s got everything and probably uses Terminators in their most accurate role, free use of Powerfists plus providing an important service in firepower.

I hope that this entire series has been both helpful and interesting but until I get (or am given) another idea, this pretty much wraps up my posts about Black Templars Fluff (though you might be able to expect a few to come out a while after the new Codex). I’ve looked at it, analyzed it, and talked about applying it on the table. Not a whole lot left to do (I suppose I could find something to do with the Crusades, but that feels forced without having an actual idea of what to do). I’ve got some plans for what’s coming up and I pretty much just need to finish a single Vassal game to get the next post almost entirely done.

Black Tide thoughts and List Building

Apologies for the 2-week wait on this, there was Christmas with my sister coming home, MW3 to keep me away, and it just seemed like every time I sat down to write I didn’t feel like it. Anyway, let’s get this over with.

Black Tide has never really been thoroughly tested as far as I know. Sure, there are people who have used it (and still do) with varying success and enjoyment. Some say that it’s fluffy, some say that it’s awesome, but I’m going to take some time to do two things. First, I’m going to give my opinions on it. Second, I’m going to try and build the best Black Tide list I can.

My thoughts about Black Tide:

This type of list is not fluffy. No, you can’t argue the point, it just isn’t. I’ve thoroughly checked the fluff (an extra bonus to those posts) and there isn’t anything for you to justify it from the Codex. It only exists because 20-man Crusader Squads are possible, because we have 4-5 thousand battle-brothers, people would get excited by the image of a hundred angry marines charging down the field, and a few pictures (such as the one of the front of the codex). Simply being able to field 20-man Crusader Squads does not mean you should design your army around them, and while we do have a massive number of battle brothers, they are over a vast area so they aren’t concentrated enough for this kind of army. Just because you think that the picture of a horde of Black Templars is awesome does not mean that it is fluffy, it means that the people making the codex thought it would look cool. In fact, the fluff mentions absolutely nothing about large numbers of Initiates on foot; Armored Columns, Drop Pod Assaults, but no foot-based. You can run them, you can have a Crusade based on them; they can be fluffy for you. That doesn’t make them a fluffy army in general.

Now it isn’t competitive for one reason and one reason alone: 20-man Crusader Squads. They are slow, they are only moderately capable in close combat, they die to shooting, they die to fearless wounds, they are super expensive, and they can’t kill tanks. They are everything you do not want your units to be! 20 guys? They still die; your opponent just doesn’t have to worry about over-kill and you can’t hide them as easily. 60 attacks in Close Combat? Wrong, think 30 and most aren’t Power Weapons because you’ll be killed before you get there. Righteous Zeal? That’s not mobility; that just makes losses slightly less harmful (or more harmful if you fail a morale test and your opponent can escort your unit). A Meltagun? Sweet, I can get that, but faster, safer, cheaper, and more reliably in a 5-man Rhino Squad. That’s not Anti-Tank; it is a necessary purchase to at least give the unit a chance at doing something good. And you are not going to argue the price, are you?

Now, they don’t have to be 20 guys. 14 or so will essentially do the same thing, but with all of the flaws reduced (except the dying parts, but that doesn’t outweigh the other problems that are lessened). Guess what? It still doesn’t work, but you have a better shot at it. You could go down to 5 guys, but then you lose the whole ‘horde’ aspect and they suffer from not having any staying power (compared to the larger squads). There is a ‘best’ balance in this, but it isn’t really an ‘optimal’ balance, so you’re still in the mud without a ride.

Lack of extra points on good choices and lack of any redeeming value means that the only way Black Tide lists will be good is if it is on the backs of the supporting units, which are in every other Black Templars list (virtually), and those have good Troops to make those support units really shine.

So how do we make a Black Tide list?

Well, first we need to cover our weaknesses. We need Independent Characters in the Squads to give them some extra punch in Close Combat, as well as give them either Ld10 or Fearless. We need as much anti-tank as we can get, of course, and we need some long-range fire-support.

Now, I did some research and found a thread on B&C which was started to talk about Black Tide lists and provide a source for everyone to get some tips on making Black Tides. I did find some useful information on there, though it ended up dying without any sort of final consensus on good lists (mostly just some discussion on how big the squads should be).

You either need to go all vehicles, or none. You can’t just take a couple of Dreadnoughts and a wing of Typhoons and go for it, because they will get targeted and killed, leaving you with no long-range Anti-Tank (which is what the vehicles are for). So what are some options? Attack Bikes (fast Multi-Meltas) and Terminators; both are Infantry-based and so, while good targets for things like Missile Launchers and Lascannons, aren’t as vulnerable to them as 6 vehicles might be. The Crusader Squads need to be armed with a Meltagun and a Powerfist, with an accompaniment of extra bodies to keep those two guys alive. Oh, and you also should have at least two Las/Plas Squads to sit on home Objectives and give some extra fire-support.

I’ve thought of two ways to go, and I’m not entirely sure which one to take. A true Black Tide with large Crusader Squads (more than 12-guys) and an MSU approach which would be more like a Close Combat foot army.

(Here would be a good time to point out that, while you could have supporting vehicles, you would really need to go with three Dreadnoughts, three Typhoons, and three Predators to get the saturation and redundancy needed without those transports to help out. But the problem here is that you are basically running a standard Gunline but with horde-ish Crusader Squads, which don’t synergize with the rest of the list. It becomes forced and I don’t think it would function properly, so I’m going to stay away from it unless I need to).

The true Black Tide I came up with is this:

Reclusiarch: 3 Cenobites, Bolt Pistol, Meltabombs; -131

Reclusiarch: 3 Cenobites, Bolt Pistol, Meltabombs; -131

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept); -140

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters; -265

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters; -265

Crusader Squad (8/7): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -238

Crusader Squad (8/7): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -238

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Attack Bike Squadron (2): 2 Multi-Meltas; -130

Attack Bike Squadron (2): 2 Multi-Meltas; -130

Attack Bike Squadron (2): 2 Multi-Meltas; -130

Total:-2,000

Two 15-man squads (with attached Chaplains), two Terminator Squads, two Las/Plas squads (I needed something to hold objectives), and an array of MM Attack Bikes. Why the Attack Bikes? Because they provide fast Melta and can be used to screen the Crusader Squads (and the Terminators). The Terminators provide the fire-support as well as real danger to various threats that the Crusader Squads can’t handle in Close Combat (Monstrous Creatures and Walkers are prime examples).

And it actually isn’t too light on Anti-Tank nor Close Combat ability, what it lacks is an effective way to get to any Objectives ‘way over there’ or if the opponent drags them into Close Combat for a couple of turns. So it might be workable, but I have my doubts.

(Now, while writing this I did play a game with the above list against one of my Tyranid lists and confirmed that those massive squads aren’t good enough to hold a flank by themselves. They got shot and then assaulted and were just totally wiped out while the Terminators didn’t fair much better, but against a heavier opposition. The result was a massacre against the Black Tide and I really shouldn’t be expecting much more with those large Crusader Squads.)

Next up we have this list:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept); -140

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield; -120

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield; -120

Sword Brethren (6): BP/CS, Powerfist w/ Terminator Honors, Meltagun, Frags, Infiltrate; -155

Sword Brethren (6): BP/CS, Powerfist w/ Terminator Honors, Meltagun, Frags, Infiltrate; -155

Sword Brethren (5): BP/CS, Powerfist w/ Terminator Honors, Meltagun, Frags, Infiltrate; -135

Crusader Squad (5/3): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -143

Crusader Squad (5/2): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -132

Crusader Squad (5/2): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -132

Crusader Squad (5/2): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -132

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Assault Squad (5): 2 Plasma Pistols, Powerfist, Meltabombs; -145

Assault Squad (5): 2 Plasma Pistols, Powerfist, Meltabombs; -145

Assault Squad (5): 2 Plasma Pistols, Powerfist, Meltabombs; -145

Total:-2,000

The Sword Brethren (with the Marshals) Infiltrate forward and are soon supported by the Assault Squads; together they hold off the enemy until the Crusader Squads get there. Ideally all of the Powerfists and Melta will destroy tanks while the number of squads makes up for the low-model count in each and the Assault Squads perform as pseudo fire-support (with the Sword Brethren closing the distance quickly as well). Two Marshals, while expensive, are needed to retain that Ld10 after one dies. And yes, they have Powerfists. They reason is that I want them to be able to hurt tanks and aside from Meltabombs (which wouldn’t have been cheaper when combined with the Lightning Claw) there wasn’t another option.

Still, it lacks actual fire-support and tries to make up for that with lots of Powerfists (but without Terminators). The end result is that it has worse stats than the first Black Tide list, but I’m not entirely sure that this overshadows the increased flexibility it provides.

How about we try and mix these two with their best features? Pure MSU doesn’t look good, and large squads don’t look good.

Okay, the best units in the first list are the Terminators. They provide the best long-range firepower available as well as actual Close Combat threat (albeit in the form of Counter-Assault). We’ll take three. Now we’ll take the Troops from the second list for the flexibility. We’ve got lots of units now, so we’ll grab the Marshals from the second list as well. And of course we have the Emperor’s Champion with Accept Any Challenge.

That puts us a little under 100 points left. Not enough for another unit, and we could always benefit from being better against vehicles. Well, get a couple of Chainfists in each Terminator unit so they’re even scarier, and get Terminator Honors for the Marshals to give them an extra attack with their Powerfists. Still have 24 points so grab a couple of Neophytes and we’ll just have two extra points.

Our newest list looks like this:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept); -140

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors; -135

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors; -135

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters, 2 Chainfists; -275

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters, 2 Chainfists; -275

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters, 2 Chainfists; -275

Crusader Squad (5/3): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -143

Crusader Squad (5/3): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -143

Crusader Squad (5/3): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -143

Crusader Squad (5/2): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -132

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Total:-1,998

Something that I’ve recently realized is that the squads pushing forward don’t actually have to be troops, so let’s see if there is anything else which is close, but better. Heavy Support and Fast Attack have nothing, really, and Elite is full. But we’re already taking Marshals, so let’s look at a Command Squad.

5 guys with Counter-Attack, Frags and dual Meltaguns come at 123 points. There are 2 Meltaguns and they have Counter-Attack (but no Neophytes), so we can push for another 25 points (assuming we drop one Neophyte from a Crusader Squad). We still need a Powerfist though and the only way to do that is to give the Sergeant Terminator Honors to access the Armory.

Bad news here. Terminator Honors plus Powerfist equals 30 points. If we did that then *makes a few calculations in the background* we would total at 2,008 points. We could drop the Neophytes and grab another Initiate, and that sounds good. Of course, we can (and will) drop some Chainfists and switch that Initiate back so that we can buff our numbers with Neophytes. So here is what just might be my Black Tide list:

Emperor’s Champion: Vow (Accept); -140

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors; Command Squad (5): BP/CS, 2 Meltaguns, Counter-Attack; -293

Marshal: Powerfist, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors; Command Squad (5): BP/CS, 2 Meltaguns, Counter-Attack; -293

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters; -265

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters; -265

Terminator Squad (5): 2 CMLs, Tank Hunters; -265

Crusader Squad (6/1): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -141

Crusader Squad (5/2): BP/CS, Powerfist, Meltagun, Frags; -135

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Crusader Squad (5): Bolters, Lascannon, Plasma Gun; -101

Total:-1,999

The numbers say that it has great Close Combat ability (though about half of it is from the Terminators) and it can handle mech (though about half of it is from the Terminators), so I’ll have to get some games in with it to see if that actually holds up (or if it needs higher numbers than normal, which it probably will).

Until I get some games in, I’ll have to leave it at that. If anyone has any questions, thoughts, comments, chickens, objections, or suggestions, please leave a comment and let me know (don’t you dare say “I have a thought” and nothing else, because I will find where you live and I will cut you!). I’m not sure how well this list will perform, but I think that for Black Tide this is about as good as you’re going to get.